1. DDR

    DDR Loyal Comrade

    AH! So there ARE English books out there ! That is good to know, It is a shame you lost yours to fire :( , If there is anyone out there with such a copy then it may pay them to scan it and sell/donate copies for us :) I understand what Keri means about translating stuff , some things have different names or terms that are similar to other things, that must be where the term "lost in translation" comes from :D..
  2. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    I've heard they are out there, but the English shop myth is almost like a Unicorn. You hear they exist but they are elusive.
  3. Bountyflyer

    Bountyflyer Premium Member Forum Donor

    I'm telling you guys that I would do it. I speak both languages, fixing Trabis since I was 13, all thru still finding out new details about special edition cars what I've not seen before. I mostly seen older Trabies with 6V systems. A few of them just came out with the "new" and improoved 12V system when I started to collect vintage Opels and other cars like a 66 Mercury Meteor convertible...

    So if you guys want to have an English shop manual, I need your help. As I wrote earlier after I done my translation I need someone who would edit my grammer and spelling. Preferebly a Trabant owner who knows mechanics... I would do a couple of pages a week...

    I would like to do it for free, as a help to the community. I'm not sure how to copy wright it so no one could steal it and start selling it for money...

    It has many pictures, so I think it would be nice to make it as a book what perhaps our members could buy and support our web site?

    What do you guys think? Who want to help? Keri, how is your English?
    Keri likes this.
  4. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    I'd help with it.
  5. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    Sorry, the earlier post was from my iphone. I think that is a great idea and I appreciate you wanting to do it as a contribution to the site, we could figure out a way to limit access so it can't be mass re-produced without permission

    I'm not AS knowledgeable as someone like Keri, but I know my way enough so I could probably help...Whatever I don't know I am sure there are others that can help also. I think it sounds like a worthwhile project.
  6. Keri

    Keri Leader

    Мой английский хорошо!

    English is my best language. I'm not bad at English grammar and spelling.
    I'm also not too bad at mechanical stuff..

    I can also scan books into computers.

    Finding someone willing to pay us for this effort will be difficult. So, we should do it by ourselves and not depend upon selling it. Just post it for reference and maybe make a printed copy available if anyone wanted to undertake that aspect.
    It is still a worthwhile effort* but if anyone is expecting to accumulate surplus value** from it they will probably be disappointed.

    *- most worthwhile efforts are similarly unpaid
    **- surplus value = profit.
  7. Matteo

    Matteo Premium Member Forum Donor

    Ok, roughly speaking... how hard would be the fee to have the manual translated? I would be keen with it.
  8. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    I don't know if we would need to have to pay a fee. Bountyflyer offered to do the translation just as a benefit to the community, he just asked for some help in making sure grammar and spelling were correct.

    I volunteered to help proof it, but if others wanted to help proof it too we could get away without having to pay for a professional translation. The only cost involved would be time and then the cost of any hard copy printed versions.

    Keri, I don't think it would be an issue or even a want of getting rich off doing it, just to recoup some costs for printing them and if there are any profits to it, as Bountyflyer said, they could go to the community to help improve and maintain the site. If we just ended up breaking even too that would be fine, we would still have an English manual.
  9. Bountyflyer

    Bountyflyer Premium Member Forum Donor

    There is one more issue about copy rights. To use the text and pictures out of the book belongs to a company who published it. After kommunism collapesd, some other western company bought up the old government owned publisher. I wrote an email to them today to ask for their permission to use the pictures and text out of their book. Will see if they will even answer...
  10. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    I think we would be OK especially if we really just used it for us. Worst case scenario we make it e-copy only
  11. Wartburg353W

    Wartburg353W Loyal Comrade

    There are a couple of websites that have a free downloadable Trabant repair manual in German. Somebody found a link to one in a previous discussion about this subject. And couldn't you use an internet translation tool if you had a problem understing that? And anyway there's always Keri to explain anything you could possibly not understand. :)
  12. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    But what about when Keri is off gallivanting with Comrade Trabi? This would allow us to help ourselves
  13. DDR

    DDR Loyal Comrade

    I think between Bountyflyer and Keri it would be a good venture , I also agree that profit for copies should NOT come into it . May I suggest that it is available for members to look at BUT if you require a download for example, that members could make a small donation to the running of the site or something similar, someone must have to pay for the site? I hope I am not speaking out of turn.. I just believe in fairness for all and to help ones fellow comrades .
    Justin likes this.
  14. Keri

    Keri Leader

    I'm not against selling manuals for supporting this site or any other good cause.
    I just don't feel that it is likely to accomplish this!
    The effort and expense of printing will probably never be recovered, so if it's a project to raise funds, it will probably fail in that respect.
    Paying for translation services would probably be the largest expense, so let's try to avoid that.

    It's a good, worthwhile cause.

    Likely problems:

    People damaging their Trabi or them selves after reading the manual and blaming the translators or the supplier (us)
    Copyright issues from the original publisher
    Proliferation of unauthorized copies
    Runaway expenses with little chance of recovery
  15. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    DDR, There are expenses with the site, which is why I do things like the T-Shirt sales, I make a little profit on them and all the proceeds literally go into the site. The cost of domain renewal in minimal, what is the most cost has come from the server built to handle the site and several months ago we bought the pretty new platform we have now. It's done for the love of the hobby and the car and with no intention of really making money or making profit.

    With that being said, some of the upgrades that I would like to do to the site are to add a member garage and add a second server that mirrors the primary. The primary is in South Carolina and my close friend and our web person, bttw, hosts it and pays to upgrade the server to keep the site going 24/7. However, there are times where storms hit and circumstances beyond anyone's control can cause the site to go down, so we want to get a second server and host it where I am at in Texas. Also I would like to be able to reimburse bttw for money he has already spent.

    So supporting the site through donations and purchasing are always helpful to grow the community and keep developing it. So if you are anyone wants to do that, then please feel free to donate or buy the T-Shirt we are selling right now.

    Going back to the manual, I think way too much is being read into it. Keri, I believe you are right, to print an actual hard copy would be probably cost prohibitive and paying people for something we have the ability to do ourselves would go against our Trabant ways :) We could do a scan for reference online and like the other things that are on here, it is doubtful that I would charge a fee for download, it would just be part of the community that would help others out, which is what this community is intended to do. Although if this translating a workshop manual does start to become a reality, then I would at least humor the thoughts of getting hard copies printed after we translate and see what the cost would be.

    I don't think a professional translator is necessary Bountyflyer volunteered his time and his ability to translate manuals he already has. All he asked for is help from someone mechanically knowledgeable to make sure his spelling and grammar was correct. As mentioned, I will volunteer to help with this and I'm sure there are a couple others that who could help too.

    With these issues:

    People damaging their Trabi or them selves after reading the manual and blaming the translators or the supplier (us) - a disclaimer could help with that. When I mess up on my MG, I don't blame Haynes, plus my brother is an attorney so we could get the wording correct.

    Copyright issues from the original publisher - I know Bountyflyer contacted the company to try and get permission, so I think we would be fine for any free e-copy, but if not then we will come up up with a plan B if its needed.

    Proliferation of unauthorized copies - Im not overly concerned about this one, it is what it is

    Runaway expenses with little chance of recovery - This one just won't happen, worse case we go through it and end up with an electronic copy and all we have in it is time.

    Anyway, it would be nice to have an English shop manual so Bountyflyer, whatever we need to try to start this, lets do it!
    DDR likes this.
  16. DDR

    DDR Loyal Comrade

    Hi Justin & Keri , These are all good ideas and for the benefit of the Trabant community as a whole :) Justin.. Haynes are somewhat vague I.E " Remove engine, strip and rebuild it " ..well, ok not really that bad but never seem to tell you about the part you the owner are working on ( This is my opinion and NOT that of the site or its owners ) ..and while we are on the subject disclaimers are the way to go :p.
  17. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    DDR, Actually I think Haynes ARE that vague and really are as bad as that example leads on to.

    Disclaimers are great, sad some of the ones we have to use these days
  18. trabant601

    trabant601 Loyal Comrade

    If I recall corretly, Trabants were exported to Iceland. Is that where English versions of books went. I could be wrong. Any one in Iceland or know any of our Trabant friends in Iceland?
  19. Keri

    Keri Leader

    <----- Liked Haynes manuals... :oops:
  20. Justin

    Justin Founder Moderator

    You're also VERY mechanically inclined

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