Registry: 1950 CycleKart Italian

Good looking Kart Dave!

Thank's Dennis. Can't wait to get the skin on, but having to relocate in the process.

Great choice of kart Dave,,looks good so far,,can't wait to see more..Good luck with the build..Brian S.

Thank's Brian. Once moved I'll have 1 month before Tieton to do all the bodywork. Gonna be close!

Hello Dave, excellent build, both concept and details! Did you make aluminum chassis, bolted? Good luck for Tieton, even be classified as "formula libre" and started from back row... Zoran

Thank you Zoran,Yes, the chassis is aluminum. 1x3 inch .1250 wall rectangle, with oak inserts at the stress points, gusseted and through bolted. Even with all the hardware, I'm pretty happy with the weight.Other than the postwar vintage, it will all be GGP formula.So, maybe Libra, yes.Having recently relocated in the midst of the project, it looks likeI won't finish in time. I'll still be there at Saturday however.Good to here from you...Dave

It drives. Actually the 1st one I've driven. Fun. A little squirrely on sudden deceleration. I'll sort it out.

Finally, the bodywork can begin.

At last beginning to look the part.Now for the nose!

That car really looks sweet, nice and low and beautiful lines.

Thank you again Dennis. That Monocar of yours inspired me to keep it low & stable.

Why such a small under powered engine? With driver (you) what is the total weight? how many speed transmission? What is the final drive ratio? Top speed?

JohnnyThe engine size, while small, is the max allowed under the guidelines for participation in cyclekart events. The transmissionis variable ratio torque converter. Wt. with me is 445lbs. Lesswih someone else. Top speed, with enough road is about 45 mph.

Dave, I like your machine's look! Seeing it takes more time and enough road to gain speed, seems to me to defy the purpose of being a racer or being safe in traffic. I chose to build this vehicle with a 420cc Predator motor to overcome these issues that others who want a more practical vehicle now can build. It appears the automotive industry has been taken over by the government regulations, whicj is an unstated guideline other clubs and associations incorporate to encompass all vehicle classifications, who create restrictions to turn people away from what the people really want. The politics of dancing.

I believe you are missing the point Johnny R. I'd say you need to dosome reading about what the Cyclekart movement is all about. We're not building dragsters, formula Juniors or Mini Sprints. And the choice to limit the W/B, tread, tire size, weight and displacement is meant to keep the cost down so one doesn't have to get into the many thousands of dollars to have a weekend of fun.There are plenty of guys that are building shifter go karts with multi cylinder big displacement engines. That's not what Cyclekarting is about and it wouldn't be much fun having one of those in a group of toned down Cyclecars. dg

That covers it nicely, Denny.Johnny, have a look at some of the video from cyclekart gatherings on this site and maybe it'll make more sense to you. Or, maybe not. They aren't everyone's cup of tea.

By variable ratio you mean a CVC belt trans? This is not the most fuel efficient and wear out quickly. Gearing is one of the most important ingredient for fuel economy, besides power to weight ratio. 1 horse power can pull 33,000 pounds, but that's not at an optimal economic ratio. I'm not sure what you mean about the gathering, except keeping it fair in a race competition. OR maybe showing off a different limited design and engineering concepts. Maybe I'm weird but my competition is myself and I'm not interested in the social aspect of showing off. Many ask me why I don't take my '67 Cougar to car shows, I say, "I build it cause I like it. What other think doesn't really matter." Yet with building this cyclecar, the same reasons you listed were considered in building this vehicle, (except for using a motor that can get out of it's own way & independent suspension) but known engineering that make the vehicle more performance oriented for handling and economical, besides user friendly qualities of anyone who

Yep. That's the trans type I mean, and yes, there are more efficient means of transfering power. But in an effort to keep the cars within a similar performance envelope, it's part of a formula we have agreed on over the course of time. Sure, you will find variations , but with the goal being more exhibition racing thanall out competition, we want them to run close, and at fairly low speeds. I'll note also that many, if not most of us have considerable experience with much higher performance vehicles ranging fromracing cars and motorcycles to aviation projects of considerable complexity. Be assured Johnny, these cars are not simple and slow do to lack of imagination or knowledge. Their builders actually like them this way. I'll take wheel to wheel at 25mphover150mph by myself any day. Been there... If you're looking for fun, you're In the right place. Top efficiency research? Not so much.You aren't wierd. You just have different priorities.Just please, be careful how fast you push those bicycle parts!Good

Luck

Well said Dave. In my time I've driven full midgets, Sprinters, and later built and flew a Pitts S1 in national competition. At my age, ie, 74, I'm ready to just have some fun while burning off the urge to go fast. How ever, I do want for a little better performance than the John Deere lawn tractor.So a 10hp Cyclekart at 50 on a tight climbing and twisting off road course probably will give me more than my share of thrills.And.....it would be fun to chase another kart minded buddy around knowing he's not out to run circles around me, where only your skilland feel for the machine gives one the advantage over the other. Denny GrahamSandwich, IL

I can appreciate your design that matches your purpose. So the good handling comes from having a hard frame with no suspension? Driving on smooth road surfaces is a must? Where I live there are a lot of dirt rutted roads that even with a long traveling suspension, it's a rough ride. After seeing the late 19 century original cyclecars were built more or less like your model, I wanted a modern version build that would have been designed if the parts were available then, as they are now. I also think it's fun driving on tight twisting roads with confidence in my machine's feedback, even at high speeds. I must admit, I've got a heavy foot, even though I've lightened up some with age, the thrill isn't necessarily the objective as is achieving the performance expected. As for thrills, I'll never forget riding in my father's '57 T bird going over the Rock Island RR tracks at 140 mph while I was standing on the seat holding on the windshield with my face in the wind. My legs doubled upon landing back on the pavement

I just finish installing a front spoiler and have some wiring to finish before paint. Since I live out in the desert with wide open highways, I plan on finding out what top end is. I'll post the results here. Thanks for your concern.

Denny I'm telling you. The first time you throw that thing sideways and drift through a corner on those skinny tires at the heady velocity of 20mph, you are in for a real treat! Like putting an S-1 down on a skinny runway in a crosswind?Not hardly. But lots of silly amusement.

Johnny I'll look forward to seeing your progress. Thank you forthe kind remarks on my Kart. Soon I'll be posting the finished product.

Dave, did you post any details of the build in the Tech forum or somewhere else??? I'm just full of questions, such as, can you elaborate on the front rims/hubs? Did you sort out the "deceleration" handling problemthat you had mentioned? Like to hear more about your instruments.How did you make out on the weight after the body was finished?I assume the tail and nose are glass??? Like to see the frame before it got dressed.DG

PS: and yes, I did chalk up a couple of runway lights before I got the landings figured out.Fortunately the runway was in my back yard so I could sneak out and stand them back up after dark before the neighbors noticed. dg

Denny, but it would be nice to see such lights from a few miles around? Especially for Christmass period! Ciao, Zoran

Denny. Didn't do a journal. Got too far along before I thought I wanted to and I'm kind of reclusive once I get into my laboratory. Those front wheels are kawasaki kx 80. The hubs just lookmore like the Borrani wires on the old Ferrarri but the bearings are kind of small and there's not much meat to bore out for larger. I'll see how they last. I'm embarrassed to say that most of the decel instability was just front end slop. On acceleration, with all the old timey camber it just sort of runs fairly true on it's own. But when the weight transfers forward, look out! My front susp is independent, and set up to squat a little turning in, (I despise understeer) which doesn't help. If you use Azusa spindles, be prepared to re-bush them with somthing better than those plastic inserts. Constantly loosening. The insturments I just lifted from Ebay ads, blew them up to scale on an office printer, cut them out and set them in the bezels, which are 1/4" slices of aluminum pipe. then I poured in clear casting resin to

form a lens. The weight is just an estimate. But pretty close as I have been able to weigh all the big chunks separately. The bodywork is .040 wrisco rivited to the aluminum chassis, but the compound curves are built up wood and foam over formers, glassed over with 4oz cloth. Getting close to finishing so album to come.Dave

Aha, foe instruments, They looked so real I thought you had found asource for cyclekart appropriate gauges.Won't do it on the first kart, but would like some day to make some custom hubs laced up with the Honda rims on them. With them we could spread the load out a little more and use a good sized bearing, maybe even adjustable Timkins.dg

I looked around for a 1950s era Jeager 8000 rpm tach scaled down to 3.5 " diameter for cyclekarts. Somehow nobody had one. Go figure. Yeah, these ballraces should be on borrowed time with the side loads we put on them. Yet, they seem to defy conventional wisdom, lasting fairly well.

The ball bearings that are used in motorcycle wheels are designed for Radial loadsWhen used on a four wheel vehicle they need to be designed for an angular load.That can be a angular contact ball bearing or the more common angular contact roller bearing.The front outer wheel bearing on many of the older rear wheel drive vehicles are really quite small. It wouldnt be a stretch to design a hub that used a common bearingsuch as that used on an older Chevy, Ford or Mopar front wheel. They would be inexpensive and readily available anywhere there is an auto parts store or bearing supplier.Problem isgetting someone to tool up and manufacture inexpensive hubs for our application.But.like you posted.this so far doesnt seem to be a major weakness in theCyclekart as they are being built today.dg

Hi, I wonder how I can get the project? For me to do here in Brazil. Congratulations on the very beautiful CycleKart my e-mail and atilio-rodrigo@hotmail.com

Thank you, AtilioMost of the mechanical parts used in these cars are gokart parts.Gokartsusa.com works with an agent in Brazil and has most of what you need. The wheels come from the Honda Ct 90 trail bike.Most of it you design the way you like. There are no plans, but I recommend taking ideas from the builders you see on this site.

Thank you, AtilioMost of the mechanical parts used in these cars are gokart parts.Gokartsusa.com works with an agent in Brazil and has most of what you need. The wheels come from the Honda Ct 90 trail bike.Most of it you design the way you like. There are no plans, but I recommend taking ideas from the builders you see on this site.Read and study as much as you can before you begin and don't hesitate to ask questions. Have funDave

I would like to know how I can get the Cyclekart chassis

Other than cyclekart.uk.co., there are none for sale.Almost all have been designed and built by their owner.

Atilio, Jayme Barbarisi, a member here, lives near you and is working on a cyclekart.

Hello Dave, this jurnal became one with longest list of comments! Great! Zoran

A real gray line between a "Registry" or Build thread Zoran. When there is no thread in a build forum then this seems to be the onlyway to get at the details.dg

Denny ... my correction: that is REGISTER not JURNAL as I wrote! Sometime both jurnals and registers are better than thread/topic? Zoran

Where can I find the place to add new photos of the body work?

Ok Denny, that does it!I wasn't going to do a journal, but at the risk of subjecting myself to the full brunt of the peanut gallery, you have convinced me it's the appropriate format going forward. Naturally, I'll still keep an eye out here. Look for me in the funny papers, boys.

Start up a journal Johnny, like I finally did.

I knew we'd shame you into spilling the beans on your build Dave.But seriously, I'm sure the other guys would like to see more detailson how you went about the fabrication of your kart. You've used alot of different ideas from the standard build in your CK.ThanksDenny GrahamSandwich, IL

Comment by Johnny R: Where can I find the place to add new photos of the body work? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johny, you could simply add new photos in your own thread/topic named "Hand built economy cycle car", in "Custom Karts Forum". Just as old photos, you could add new photos with text as you want. No limited space there. Ciao, Zoran

Dave, sorry to abused your space! Zoran

New photos uploaded replacing other, no change

the old deleted replaced with new will not delete. Should I create a whole new post?

Dave D. I created a journal, but am not familiar with how to manage it. I posted it on yahoo, but what's RSS feed? I can't even post my new photos on this sight after 10 tries of deleting the old and posting the new, nothing changes.

No problem Zoran.I guess Sky will shut us down if we get too wordy here.Good answer to johnny by the way.

Johnny.I had a hard time with my photos as well.Needed a better connection to my WiFi.Got closer. Worked.

My computer is hard wired to the Internet.

Comment by Dave D: No problem Zoran.I guess Sky will shut us down if we get too wordy here.Good answer to johnny by the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTHING NEW, I WAS BANNED A FEW TIMES FOR A FEW DAYS BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH POSTING IN "PUB"! THAT IS MACHINE, I SUPPOSE? ZORAN

Oh! I guess we'd better watch out then.

Same here Zoran, thought the idea was to have open discussions, don't understand there being a limit on how much you can discuss.dg

Finally got new photo of the finish front end. take a look here by scrolling down to the last photo: http://www.cyclekartclub.com/phorum/read.php?6,20282

Wow, did this comment section go sideways or what?

Don't mean to be "off topic" but I just have to say........ Awesome CycleKart Dave! You nailed it.

The most "on topic" comment this section has seen a while!Thank's Bryan.

Beautifully crafted, detailed representation Daves muse! Craftsmanship is second to none!

Beautiful vehicle. I think it may be my favourite so far.

Thank you Sean. I just love the postwar racers.Working on a 1952 BRM now.

Hi DaveI've been casually browsing CycleKart but had to join when I saw your 166 Kart - its just stunning and I would love to know more about you build of this beauty - do you have photos of its development? I think doing something like this might be beyond me but you have inspired me to at least think about building one.

Thanks so much for the kind words Colin.The greatest compliment is that your build has inspired someone. It's true that one of this type does take some extra work, but not THAT much. Choosing something you really love, rather that what will be easiest, is so much more rewarding. Go to the Search tool and enter " The Ferrari 166 f2" and my build Jounal will be near the top.

It looks good at speed. https://photos.smugmug.com/-1/i-tzfTP8c/0/2a239435/M/IMG_4619-M.jpg

We All Owe Dave Congradulatios For Becoming #1 WORLD WIDE!Way To Go....

#1 in the world?Thanks, but what did I miss?

Report is that you have 20 points in Carlos's WORLD WIDE Cyclekart Event which puts you in First Place WORLD WIDE! CONGRATULATIONS BIG DAVE! Way To Haul The Mail.And very nice builds also..... Can you tell that you are my new idol?

Well, Keep those corks wired down EZ, the fat lady ain't sung just yet!The Carona speed challenge still isn't closed. I need to put up a good number this weekend if I'm to put myself out of reach.

Dave congratulations! It is incredible what you have achieved!It is the best Cyclekart I found on the entire internet!I'm going to build one just like it, I already decided...